The Art of Conversation and Lifelong Learning

Everyone has a story to share. Everyone is interesting.

Unschoolers and hosts of the Self Directed podcast, Jesper and Cecilie Conrad, roam the world seeing spectacular sights, but the real heart of their travels is the people they meet. As Cecilie says, “People are the adventure.”

I once read that to be interesting, we need to be interested in others. And that’s what makes the Conrads’ podcast so good. Jesper and Cecilie are interested hosts who want to know more about their guests.

Before my first podcast conversation with the Conrads, I emailed Jesper, asking him for a list of questions he planned to ask me. The list never arrived. That’s not the way the Conrads work. They prefer to have spontaneous conversations that end up in unexpected, exciting places instead of deciding ahead of time what ground they and their guests will cover.

This reminds me of our family conversations. We might settle in the living room with mugs of coffee and explore thoughts, opinions and ideas as we chat. Hours pass. No one wants to get up and interrupt the conversation. Finally, someone risks breaking the magic and heads to the kitchen to make more coffee, saying, “Hold that thought! I’ll be right back!” We’re enjoying each other’s company and the engaging conversation, which has headed into an unexpected direction. We’re connecting together. We’re also learning.

In episode 76 of the Self Directed podcast, I learnt a lot about Cecilie and Jesper. The Conrads allowed me to sit in the hosting chair while they were guests on their own show.

Here’s the episode description:

Have you ever wondered what goes on behind the scenes of your favorite podcasts? Join us for a unique twist as Sue Elvis steps in as our interviewer, flipping the script on your usual hosts, Jesper and Cecilie. Sue brings heartwarming feedback from new listeners who love our open-minded and conversational style. Together, we reminisce about the origins of our podcast, the nervous excitement of recording our un-aired Episode Zero, and the inspirations and motivations that fueled our journey into podcasting.

Podcasting isn’t always smooth sailing; we delve into its spontaneous and sometimes challenging aspects. From overcoming self-consciousness and technical glitches to the dynamic of hosting as a duo versus solo, we dive into what makes our podcast tick. We also explore the balance between preparation and spontaneity and highlight the joy of continuous learning and growth. Our conversation touches on how focusing on setting an example and taking risks has been crucial in overcoming the initial hurdles.

Curiosity drives our choice of podcast guests, steering us away from rigid criteria. We share insights on balancing multiple creative projects with personal life commitments and the importance of giving back to the community.
Join us for a captivating episode that underscores our passion for meaningful conversations and continuous discovery in friendships.

I also learnt a lot about myself as I led this Self Directed conversation with the Conrads as my guests.

When the recording was finished, I suddenly doubted my podcast hosting ability. Did I ask the right questions? Should I have said more? Or perhaps I should have said less? Did I listen properly and respond adequately to what the Conrads were saying? I wondered if I’d ruined the episode.

I wanted to hide and declare, “ I’ll never host another podcast!” But when I expressed my feelings to Jesper, he insisted I’d done okay.

It’s good to have friends who encourage instead of criticising us, isn’t it? Encouragement spurs us to continue learning instead of giving up. The next time I get to be a podcast host, I’ll have an opportunity to improve my skills as well as discover the stories of the people I’m chatting with. I’m hoping I get to talk with Jesper and Cecilie again. There’s still more I want to know about them. They are fascinating people.

So, will you watch or listen to episode 76 of the Self Directed podcast?

The Video Version

The Audio Version

An Unschool Challenge: Have an Engaging Conversation

Still on the topic of conversations, here’s a challenge from my book The Unschool Challenge.

Imogen, Gemma-Rose and I had some wonderful conversations while on a 9-hour (each way) road trip to see my daughter Sophie. Imogen was our driver, Gemma-Rose was in charge of our music, and I had nothing to do but enjoy the journey.

After asking for our music suggestions, Gemma-Rose put together a playlist of songs for our listening pleasure. Then we sang along, danced in our seats and chatted about each track. Many of the songs were from my younger days. Listening to one of them, I said, “I first heard this song at a disco. Dad and I used to go dancing every Saturday night. I had a short white dress with gold threads woven into the fabric. I had gold boots too. And you should have seen my makeup.” I mentioned vinyl record albums, record players, and computers that filled a room. My daughters soaked up my stories of being young in a different era. One story led to another, and we found ourselves discussing all kinds of fascinating topics.

Another time, Gemma-Rose and I had an interesting conversation that began while looking at movie-themed jewellery online. We chatted about superheroes, the strange names some parents choose for their children, movie versions of books, and musicals. Somehow we arrived at Les Miserables. I said, “I never got around to watching the movie version,” and Gemma-Rose said, “Nor did I.” Then we turned on the TV and watched it together. And we continued talking.

It doesn’t matter what we talk about, does it? Every topic is potentially interesting. We can always find an angle into a subject that will capture our attention.

We learn a lot by talking together, don’t we? We swap information, share opinions, ponder thoughts and ideas, find solutions to problems and tell stories while having an enjoyable time.

We also learn to listen carefully as we take an interest in what other people say, valuing their input. We recognise the importance of taking turns and including everyone in the conversation. We learn to communicate effectively by talking respectfully and generously with other people.

Sometimes it’s hard to listen rather than talk. We may be tempted to use a conversation to lecture our kids, telling them what they should believe and what we think they should know. But, if we can resist the urge to do this and instead listen to them, we can learn a lot about their thoughts, ideas, and opinions. We could learn something very valuable.

So, conversations lead to lots of learning. And they can be a source of delight, wonder, fun, enjoyment and connection.

The Challenge

Begin a conversation.
Where will you talk? Around the dinner table? While walking a dog? In the car? During a one-on-one time with a child?
Ensure everyone has a chance to talk.
Accept everyone’s points of view.
Our conversations can be lively, but we want them to be free of arguments.
Enjoy!
Later, write down the main points of the conversation.
Are there any ideas you want to follow up? Did you mention any books or movies you could strew? Did you talk about anything you could label English, Creative Arts or History? Can you add a few notes to your homeschool records book?
Open up regular opportunities for conversations.
Invite your kids to walk with you or have morning tea at a cafe. You could eat dinner or lunch together at the table. How about having a family dinner party?
Improve your own conversation skills.

Years ago, Andy and I did an art of conversation course. Every Saturday afternoon for a couple of months, we gathered together with other parents, eager to learn how to communicate with each other better. I’m sure, at first, we all thought we were excellent conversationalists. Didn’t we talk to each other all the time? We had no shortage of words. But we soon discovered we had a lot to learn.

It’s not okay to talk over the top of each other. What about the quiet person who’d like to join in but can’t find an opportunity? How about our habit of continually directing the conversation towards topics we want to discuss? Should we take an interest in other people’s ideas and thoughts instead of imposing ours on everyone else?

Doing an art of conversation course or reading a book on this topic is beneficial, but we can always practice our skills by talking with our families. And then our kids learn how to communicate effectively too.

Often, people ask homeschoolers this question: “What about socialisation?” What do they mean by the word ‘socialisation’? Why are they so anxious that our kids socialise? Do they think our kids won’t be able to effectively communicate with a range of people when they go out into the bigger world?

People may label homeschoolers weird and unsociable, but my children have no difficulty talking to others, including those who are different from them. They have good communication skills. And this is something not all kids have.

“They don’t know how to talk properly,” observed Sophie referring to some school kids she knows. “They have no idea how to have proper conversations where everyone is included. They talk about themselves all the time. They’re not interested in hearing what other people have to say. They don’t really want to know about me.”

And this can be hard. How do you become part of the conversation when no one is willing to listen and is uninterested in what you might have to say? When nobody even realises you’d like them to include you? Often, my girls give up. As they say, sometimes it’s the people who are always speaking who have a problem. Just because someone has no shortage of words doesn’t mean she knows how to talk.

Getting together regularly with other people doesn’t necessarily teach us how to communicate and get on with others. That’s the conclusion I came to. I stopped worrying about such things as homeschool groups and organised field trips. As long as kids are capable of being sociable, it doesn’t matter if they choose to stay home.

Yes, our kids learn to communicate effectively within our families as long as we have conversations with them and obey the conversation ‘rules’.

How you can help

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I’m wondering

Do you enjoy long conversations? Have you ever chatted with a stranger and discovered something fascinating about them? Do you love getting to know your kids, their opinions and their unique view of the world by talking with them? And what new things are you learning? Perhaps you have someone who encourages you when you think you’re not very good and want to give up.